Reserving the .bit TLD

biolizard89
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Re: Reserving the .bit TLD

Post by biolizard89 »

jprider63 wrote:Please fill me in. I am not trolling. I am genuinely interested in how Namecoin can make the internet more secure and decentralized.

Also, it is still possible for an untrusted entity to store and provide information in a cryptographically verified manner. Have you heard of authenticated data structures?
Yes, it is possible for a 3rd-party server to return Namecoin blockchain data in a trust-free manner, without the clients storing the blockchain. This however cannot be done with the DNS protocol as it currently exists. There are plans to make "lite clients" for Namecoin which don't require downloading the blockchain but are still able to provably return correct results, but by their nature they require some kind of verification algorithm on the client side. In other words, an ISP can't just "turn on" this feature for their DNS and have it be safe -- the user needs to be running some kind of software that verifies it. This can be extremely lightweight -- no blockchain download delay, and should be easy to include in a Firefox extension, for example.

The big problem with allowing a commercial entity to control the .bit TLD is that users who access a .bit domain will be unable to tell whether it has been authenticated, because using a generic DNS server to relay that information does not verify authenticity. And if you think that governments won't try to pressure that entity to censor or hijack domains, I think your trust is misplaced. It is extremely easy to hide malicious behavior from audits, e.g. the DNS server could choose to only hijack entries for particular client IP's. Meanwhile, if you do discover that the commercial DNS server is behaving maliciously, what is your recourse? Stop using .bit? Convince the masses to abandon the server by changing default settings?

(Also, sorry if I sounded harsh in my previous post.)
Jeremy Rand, Lead Namecoin Application Engineer
NameID: id/jeremy
DyName: Dynamic DNS update client for .bit domains.

Donations: BTC 1EcUWRa9H6ZuWPkF3BDj6k4k1vCgv41ab8 ; NMC NFqbaS7ReiQ9MBmsowwcDSmp4iDznjmEh5

jprider63
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:18 am

Re: Reserving the .bit TLD

Post by jprider63 »

biolizard89 wrote:
jprider63 wrote:Please fill me in. I am not trolling. I am genuinely interested in how Namecoin can make the internet more secure and decentralized.

Also, it is still possible for an untrusted entity to store and provide information in a cryptographically verified manner. Have you heard of authenticated data structures?
Yes, it is possible for a 3rd-party server to return Namecoin blockchain data in a trust-free manner, without the clients storing the blockchain. This however cannot be done with the DNS protocol as it currently exists. There are plans to make "lite clients" for Namecoin which don't require downloading the blockchain but are still able to provably return correct results, but by their nature they require some kind of verification algorithm on the client side. In other words, an ISP can't just "turn on" this feature for their DNS and have it be safe -- the user needs to be running some kind of software that verifies it. This can be extremely lightweight -- no blockchain download delay, and should be easy to include in a Firefox extension, for example.
Isn't it possible to add this verification in the TXT dns record type? Maybe just add a new dns type? I don't think there's anything preventing that. Then clients with these browser extensions can verify the dns information. Eventually, browsers could have this verification built in.
[/quote]
biolizard89 wrote: The big problem with allowing a commercial entity to control the .bit TLD is that users who access a .bit domain will be unable to tell whether it has been authenticated, because using a generic DNS server to relay that information does not verify authenticity. And if you think that governments won't try to pressure that entity to censor or hijack domains, I think your trust is misplaced. It is extremely easy to hide malicious behavior from audits, e.g. the DNS server could choose to only hijack entries for particular client IP's. Meanwhile, if you do discover that the commercial DNS server is behaving maliciously, what is your recourse? Stop using .bit? Convince the masses to abandon the server by changing default settings?
So I agree this is potentially a problem. I would like to think it's unlikely if there's a chance the user is verifying the information. Maybe this is wishful thinking though. I'm not sure what the recourse would be in this situation.
biolizard89 wrote: (Also, sorry if I sounded harsh in my previous post.)
No worries.

indolering
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Re: Reserving the .bit TLD

Post by indolering »

Okay, skipping how thoroughly hijacked this thread has become, I would like to ask what happened to this? Was it ever updated to include .bit?
DNS is much more than a key->value datastore.

phelix
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Re: Reserving the .bit TLD

Post by phelix »

indolering wrote:Okay, skipping how thoroughly hijacked this thread has become, I would like to ask what happened to this? Was it ever updated to include .bit?
I did not check in a while but it should be on it's way.
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indolering
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Re: Reserving the .bit TLD

Post by indolering »

phelix wrote: I did not check in a while but it should be on it's way.
Ahh, so they actually said they would include it not just that they were open to the idea?
DNS is much more than a key->value datastore.

phelix
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Re: Reserving the .bit TLD

Post by phelix »

yeah, it is included in some proposal to ICANN. Just asked CG what the current status is.
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phelix
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Re: Reserving the .bit TLD

Post by phelix »

This is still on. Here is the latest draft, it needs some publicity:

https://twitter.com/hellekin/status/440623704976801792
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biolizard89
Posts: 2001
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:25 am
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Re: Reserving the .bit TLD

Post by biolizard89 »

phelix wrote:This is still on. Here is the latest draft, it needs some publicity:

https://twitter.com/hellekin/status/440623704976801792
Nice, thanks phelix.
Jeremy Rand, Lead Namecoin Application Engineer
NameID: id/jeremy
DyName: Dynamic DNS update client for .bit domains.

Donations: BTC 1EcUWRa9H6ZuWPkF3BDj6k4k1vCgv41ab8 ; NMC NFqbaS7ReiQ9MBmsowwcDSmp4iDznjmEh5

phelix
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Re: Reserving the .bit TLD

Post by phelix »

As per Indo's suggestion I asked Christian about how things are going. He says the IETF is not moving and suggests we ask them at the IETF dnsop mailingliste or via other ways...
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biolizard89
Posts: 2001
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:25 am
os: linux

Re: Reserving the .bit TLD

Post by biolizard89 »

phelix wrote:As per Indo's suggestion I asked Christian about how things are going. He says the IETF is not moving and suggests we ask them at the IETF dnsop mailingliste or via other ways...
That's unfortunate. Have the Tor and I2P guys been pushing for this at all? I guess Tor probably has their hands full these days.
Jeremy Rand, Lead Namecoin Application Engineer
NameID: id/jeremy
DyName: Dynamic DNS update client for .bit domains.

Donations: BTC 1EcUWRa9H6ZuWPkF3BDj6k4k1vCgv41ab8 ; NMC NFqbaS7ReiQ9MBmsowwcDSmp4iDznjmEh5

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