Method of communication for meetings

[phelix]

I think we should move from freenode to a system allowing anonymous access. Though freenode have the word free in their name the freedom they want to give to their users seemed quite limited the last time I asked. IMHO using freenode under these circumstances is hypocrisy.

Unfortunately I can not yet suggest something good myself. Maybe there is an i2p chat we can use?

[biolizard89]

I think we should move from freenode to a system allowing anonymous access. Though freenode have the word free in their name the freedom they want to give to their users seemed quite limited the last time I asked. IMHO using freenode under these circumstances is hypocrisy.

Unfortunately I can not yet suggest something good myself. Maybe there is an i2p chat we can use?

This is certainly a problem. I myself would prefer to be accessing the IRC via Tor, and I actually was responsible for migrating the IRC channel of a nonprofit where I volunteer to Freenode in 2011 specifically because Freenode allowed Tor at the time. That said, preventing abuse on an anonymous public chat is very difficult (my understanding is that Freenode blacklisted Tor primarily because of widespread abuse). Most of the proposed solutions for preventing abuse that I've seen are simply not implemented by any IRC network (Bitcoin escrow or proof of work, for example). OFTC is a bit better about allowing anonymous access (Tor's IRC channels are on OFTC), but OFTC doesn't have a trusted TLS cert, nor an official .onion service, so OFTC is worse security-wise than Freenode by quite a bit.

I'd also be against something that isn't easily accessible by the public. A lot of new people get in contact with us via IRC (either to ask support questions or because they want to get involved in dev), so increasing the barrier to entry is, in my opinion, not a good solution. For this reason, I suspect I2P is not a great solution unless someone trustworthy is operating an inproxy.

Quite honestly I do not see a good solution. One potential workaround would be to buy a VPN account with Bitcoin, and use Tor between yourself and the VPN (so basically using the VPN as an exit node for Tor). Then you have the problem of anonymizing the bitcoins, of course. This is not a good solution, but it may be better than nothing.

If anyone has good solutions, I'd love to hear them.

[cassini]

increasing the barrier to entry is, in my opinion, not a good solution.

+1

It all depends on what level of anonymity one expects. Some have already managed to hide their IP from the general public (e.g. from patent/trademark trolls!), for example:

Code: Select all

/whois Luke-Jr
*** Luke-Jr is Luke-Jr (~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr)

/whois midnightmagic
*** midnightmagic is midnightmagic (~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic)

/whois fluffypony
*** fluffypony is The Real fluffypony (~fluffypon@unaffiliated/fluffypony)

/whois hl
*** hl is hl (~hl@unaffiliated/hl)

How did they get in this "unaffiliated" group?

As you can see I'm no IRC expert by any means, but if I understand it correctly this is a project cloak. How to apply for membership in the "unaffiliated" project group?

Alternatively, there are Group Registrations. @biolizard89: Do we have a #namecoin or #namecoin-dev group registration?
BTW, according to the freenode FAQ new group registrations are not being processed anymore. They refer to the new Group Management System.

[phelix]

What about this: http://www.oftc.net/ ? Tor seems to have their IRC channels there.

Note that Saturday early evening is still a very bad time for me. Only two or three times I think I bailed because I couldn't get Tor working (It was not displayed on the website then and it took a while for me to realize and get confirmation the problem was on their side).

[biolizard89]

What about this: http://www.oftc.net/ ? Tor seems to have their IRC channels there.

Note that Saturday early evening is still a very bad time for me. Only two or three times I think I bailed because I couldn't get Tor working (It was not displayed on the website then and it took a while for me to realize and get confirmation the problem was on their side).

OFTC is a bit better about allowing anonymous access (Tor's IRC channels are on OFTC), but OFTC doesn't have a trusted TLS cert, nor an official .onion service, so OFTC is worse security-wise than Freenode by quite a bit.

[phelix]

What about this: http://www.oftc.net/ ? Tor seems to have their IRC channels there.

Note that Saturday early evening is still a very bad time for me. Only two or three times I think I bailed because I couldn't get Tor working (It was not displayed on the website then and it took a while for me to realize and get confirmation the problem was on their side).

OFTC is a bit better about allowing anonymous access (Tor's IRC channels are on OFTC), but OFTC doesn't have a trusted TLS cert, nor an official .onion service, so OFTC is worse security-wise than Freenode by quite a bit.

Sorry for the repeat. What is the problem with their TLS cert? It looks fine to me.

[biolizard89]

What about this: http://www.oftc.net/ ? Tor seems to have their IRC channels there.

Note that Saturday early evening is still a very bad time for me. Only two or three times I think I bailed because I couldn't get Tor working (It was not displayed on the website then and it took a while for me to realize and get confirmation the problem was on their side).

OFTC is a bit better about allowing anonymous access (Tor's IRC channels are on OFTC), but OFTC doesn't have a trusted TLS cert, nor an official .onion service, so OFTC is worse security-wise than Freenode by quite a bit.

Sorry for the repeat. What is the problem with their TLS cert? It looks fine to me.

Unless I'm mistaken (which is possible), it's not trusted by either Fedora 21 or Whonix 10 in the default configuration.

EDIT: I just tried a fresh Fedora 21 template with Konversation, and I get a warning when connecting to OFTC that the TLS cert isn't trusted. Is there a Fedora package that would fix this? Does it work in another IRC client that's in the Fedora repos?

[phelix]

What about http://www.darkscience.net/ ?

It is somewhat scary that it is so difficult to find a good communication channel.

[biolizard89]

What about http://www.darkscience.net/ ?

It is somewhat scary that it is so difficult to find a good communication channel.

Their website isn't using a trusted TLS cert, so there's no way to know if the IRC server info on that website is authentic.

[phelix]

What about http://www.darkscience.net/ ?

It is somewhat scary that it is so difficult to find a good communication channel.

Their website isn't using a trusted TLS cert, so there's no way to know if the IRC server info on that website is authentic.

SSL
Our server’s only accept SSL connections, you MUST enable SSL to connect. Our server’s certificates are signed by CAcert. You can find the root certificate at CAcert, these certificates are usually included with a ca-certificates package

Tor
You can connect to Dark Science using our tor hidden service with the address darksci3bfoka7tw.onion . Alternatively the DNS record tor.irc.darkscience.net will resolve to a tor hidden service.